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	<title>Comments on: Creative Poseurs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/</link>
	<description>Leslie Burns-Dell'Acqua writes on the photo business and marketing</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: info</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34447</link>
		<dc:creator>info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 01:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34447</guid>
		<description>I think several of you fine readers missed my point. I'm not judging anyone's right to do more than one creative "job" or saying in any way that one must limit her/his creative activities to one field. I'm all for doing as much creative stuff in every/all the disciplines you choose. The more creativity out there the better!

What honks me off is when a profession requires everyone "normal" to go through very specific hoops, but if you're famous (in some other profession) the rules just don't apply to you.

See the difference?

I'm happy that people are participating in the dialogue, btw! Thanks!
-Leslie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think several of you fine readers missed my point. I&#8217;m not judging anyone&#8217;s right to do more than one creative &#8220;job&#8221; or saying in any way that one must limit her/his creative activities to one field. I&#8217;m all for doing as much creative stuff in every/all the disciplines you choose. The more creativity out there the better!</p>
<p>What honks me off is when a profession requires everyone &#8220;normal&#8221; to go through very specific hoops, but if you&#8217;re famous (in some other profession) the rules just don&#8217;t apply to you.</p>
<p>See the difference?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m happy that people are participating in the dialogue, btw! Thanks!<br />
-Leslie</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Peterman</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34427</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Peterman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34427</guid>
		<description>You didn't miss anything on this one Leslie. I like the point you brought up, very valid. 

The title Creative Poseurs also makes me think of a ton of other people in this business who aren't creative at all who suddenly start being a photographer... Of course art is all subjective but please you should be creative to be in a creative field. I see people everyday who are devoid of creativity, acting like professionals when they are really amateurs who should have kept their day job....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You didn&#8217;t miss anything on this one Leslie. I like the point you brought up, very valid. </p>
<p>The title Creative Poseurs also makes me think of a ton of other people in this business who aren&#8217;t creative at all who suddenly start being a photographer&#8230; Of course art is all subjective but please you should be creative to be in a creative field. I see people everyday who are devoid of creativity, acting like professionals when they are really amateurs who should have kept their day job&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Moffett</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34417</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Moffett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34417</guid>
		<description>I rather think this is a misguided attitude. Talent doesn't need to be officially condoned (ie number of years training and passing of exams) to be real. Many photographers, artists and the like have no "official training". All they have is vision, passion, or whatever, and then they teach themselves what they need to know. 

In architecture, there are two parts to the equation - the engineering bit (making sure the place doesn't fall down) and the arty bit (making sure you don't need to "plant ivy"). Most architects are backed up on the engineering bit anyway, but if Brad was doing engineering drawings without a grounding  (haha) in the physics of building then I'm not staying in that hotel (if they let it go up in the first place).

But artwise - if it makes a good composition, he's as justified as any other artist to voice his vision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I rather think this is a misguided attitude. Talent doesn&#8217;t need to be officially condoned (ie number of years training and passing of exams) to be real. Many photographers, artists and the like have no &#8220;official training&#8221;. All they have is vision, passion, or whatever, and then they teach themselves what they need to know. </p>
<p>In architecture, there are two parts to the equation - the engineering bit (making sure the place doesn&#8217;t fall down) and the arty bit (making sure you don&#8217;t need to &#8220;plant ivy&#8221;). Most architects are backed up on the engineering bit anyway, but if Brad was doing engineering drawings without a grounding  (haha) in the physics of building then I&#8217;m not staying in that hotel (if they let it go up in the first place).</p>
<p>But artwise - if it makes a good composition, he&#8217;s as justified as any other artist to voice his vision.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce DeBoer</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34393</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce DeBoer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34393</guid>
		<description>Leslie - You missed it on this one.  Your to close and need to gain some perspective IMHO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leslie - You missed it on this one.  Your to close and need to gain some perspective IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Giulio Sciorio</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34361</link>
		<dc:creator>Giulio Sciorio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34361</guid>
		<description>Brad Pitt as an Architect? That's like saying Boy George is a photographer. Oh wait actually Boy George is a photographer with a NYC based rep too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad Pitt as an Architect? That&#8217;s like saying Boy George is a photographer. Oh wait actually Boy George is a photographer with a NYC based rep too.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34350</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34350</guid>
		<description>I forgot your husband is an architect!  Wow, door-schedules and redlines.  At least he has been promoted to doing the lining, I only had to do one or two "redlines" (actually making the handwritten corrections in AutoCAD) before I knew that wasn't the path for me.  Funny though, the person at the firm that was most content with their job and their life was the spec writer!  Go figure.  Different strokes right?  Tell your husband that architects make the best photographers... perhaps he should consider a career change!

-Chad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot your husband is an architect!  Wow, door-schedules and redlines.  At least he has been promoted to doing the lining, I only had to do one or two &#8220;redlines&#8221; (actually making the handwritten corrections in AutoCAD) before I knew that wasn&#8217;t the path for me.  Funny though, the person at the firm that was most content with their job and their life was the spec writer!  Go figure.  Different strokes right?  Tell your husband that architects make the best photographers&#8230; perhaps he should consider a career change!</p>
<p>-Chad</p>
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		<title>By: info</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34348</link>
		<dc:creator>info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34348</guid>
		<description>Wow! Lot's of comments on this...which is great!

I'll defend my point, though, as the wife of a struggling architect. My husband has student loan debts and, in the industry, firms will (almost always) not let you design at all until you have your license. That takes many years (and money) to accomplish. In the meantime, creatives like my husband are stuck doing door schedules (you do not want to know what that is--it's mind-bogglingly dull work) and red-lining other people's drawings, but never getting to produce anything significant themselves.

That's why I'm ticked at Brad (et al)--he gets to skip the grunge work of being a drafter/engineer (at best) for years before getting to do the fun stuff. 

Same for the other famous folks who jump disciplines. Sure, they may have the talent, but I think about how many talented people I know who are in need of that one break for their primary career--and then some alternately famous person takes one of those "breaks" without having to do all the crap work that one usually has to do to get to that level. 

I just think it's selfish of the already famous to take creative gigs that could be the big break for some artist who has already been working his/her ass off in their primary discipline. 
-L</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Lot&#8217;s of comments on this&#8230;which is great!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll defend my point, though, as the wife of a struggling architect. My husband has student loan debts and, in the industry, firms will (almost always) not let you design at all until you have your license. That takes many years (and money) to accomplish. In the meantime, creatives like my husband are stuck doing door schedules (you do not want to know what that is&#8211;it&#8217;s mind-bogglingly dull work) and red-lining other people&#8217;s drawings, but never getting to produce anything significant themselves.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m ticked at Brad (et al)&#8211;he gets to skip the grunge work of being a drafter/engineer (at best) for years before getting to do the fun stuff. </p>
<p>Same for the other famous folks who jump disciplines. Sure, they may have the talent, but I think about how many talented people I know who are in need of that one break for their primary career&#8211;and then some alternately famous person takes one of those &#8220;breaks&#8221; without having to do all the crap work that one usually has to do to get to that level. </p>
<p>I just think it&#8217;s selfish of the already famous to take creative gigs that could be the big break for some artist who has already been working his/her ass off in their primary discipline.<br />
-L</p>
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		<title>By: Martha Retallick</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34347</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha Retallick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34347</guid>
		<description>To borrow an analogy from another field, there are golf courses designed by famous pros. Jack Nicklaus comes to mind.

However, I don't think that Jack actually does the nitty-gritty work of designing the course. He has others doing that for him.

But, as for the creatives doing work on fields other than the ones they're known for, there are some who do have talents in multiple areas. Remember Leonardo da Vinci? He wasn't just an artist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To borrow an analogy from another field, there are golf courses designed by famous pros. Jack Nicklaus comes to mind.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t think that Jack actually does the nitty-gritty work of designing the course. He has others doing that for him.</p>
<p>But, as for the creatives doing work on fields other than the ones they&#8217;re known for, there are some who do have talents in multiple areas. Remember Leonardo da Vinci? He wasn&#8217;t just an artist.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34346</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34346</guid>
		<description>I really have to side with Ben on this one Leslie.  I actually have my BS in Architecture but wasn't interested in the "intern" (read slave labor... at least we pay our assistants) program.  Brad may be available to take "architectural design" jobs, but there is no industrialized nation where he could actually practice architecture without the oversight of a certified architect or structural/civil engineer.  He could be held legally liable for structural deficiencies as well as any code violations... in the end, he is a design consultant to an architect, at best.

Above and beyond that, I also agree with Ben's sentiment on this one.  I had instructors in architecture school who were not certified architects, but they worked with civil engineers on every project they did.  They did not call themselves architects but rather "designers" or "architectural designers."  Do they have no right to practice their craft?  If Brad has the chops I see no reason why he should not do it.  As for him getting the job because he is Brad Pitt... well of course!  What can he possibly do about that?  If he followed your directive he would not be able to do anything else creative with his life simply because he is already successful.  Doesn't really seem fair to me.  

One last note, I can't be sure, but do you really think all of the actors and agents in LA are cursing David Bowie or The Rock when they land acting roles?  I kinda doubt it.  Actually most people think it is cool.  If you got it, do it!

I also love your blog which I have been reading regularly since SB2.  I thank you for all of your thoughts you share with us and give my descent with all respect.

-Chad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really have to side with Ben on this one Leslie.  I actually have my BS in Architecture but wasn&#8217;t interested in the &#8220;intern&#8221; (read slave labor&#8230; at least we pay our assistants) program.  Brad may be available to take &#8220;architectural design&#8221; jobs, but there is no industrialized nation where he could actually practice architecture without the oversight of a certified architect or structural/civil engineer.  He could be held legally liable for structural deficiencies as well as any code violations&#8230; in the end, he is a design consultant to an architect, at best.</p>
<p>Above and beyond that, I also agree with Ben&#8217;s sentiment on this one.  I had instructors in architecture school who were not certified architects, but they worked with civil engineers on every project they did.  They did not call themselves architects but rather &#8220;designers&#8221; or &#8220;architectural designers.&#8221;  Do they have no right to practice their craft?  If Brad has the chops I see no reason why he should not do it.  As for him getting the job because he is Brad Pitt&#8230; well of course!  What can he possibly do about that?  If he followed your directive he would not be able to do anything else creative with his life simply because he is already successful.  Doesn&#8217;t really seem fair to me.  </p>
<p>One last note, I can&#8217;t be sure, but do you really think all of the actors and agents in LA are cursing David Bowie or The Rock when they land acting roles?  I kinda doubt it.  Actually most people think it is cool.  If you got it, do it!</p>
<p>I also love your blog which I have been reading regularly since SB2.  I thank you for all of your thoughts you share with us and give my descent with all respect.</p>
<p>-Chad</p>
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		<title>By: MarcW</title>
		<link>http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/2008/06/12/creative-poseurs/#comment-34344</link>
		<dc:creator>MarcW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/?p=450#comment-34344</guid>
		<description>Interesting theory, but the reality in this case is that while if your celebrity photographer takes bad pictures you just get bad pictures, if your celebrity architect screws up, a building falls down and people die. (Or they get trapped in a fire because your exit flow isn't compliant, or the building becomes a "sick building" because your HVAC routes are bad, etc, etc.)

I'll guaran-darn-tee you that NOTHING Mr. Pitt "designs" gets built without a real architect going over it. Using him, if anything, just adds to architect employment because it adds review cycles. :)

What I want to know is how between owning The Coolest Camera In the Universe and getting to see Angelina Jolie naked ANY TIME HE WANTS, he has any interest in this architecture business in the first place.

M</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting theory, but the reality in this case is that while if your celebrity photographer takes bad pictures you just get bad pictures, if your celebrity architect screws up, a building falls down and people die. (Or they get trapped in a fire because your exit flow isn&#8217;t compliant, or the building becomes a &#8220;sick building&#8221; because your HVAC routes are bad, etc, etc.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll guaran-darn-tee you that NOTHING Mr. Pitt &#8220;designs&#8221; gets built without a real architect going over it. Using him, if anything, just adds to architect employment because it adds review cycles. <img src='http://www.burnsautoparts.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>What I want to know is how between owning The Coolest Camera In the Universe and getting to see Angelina Jolie naked ANY TIME HE WANTS, he has any interest in this architecture business in the first place.</p>
<p>M</p>
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